Talk:Demon/@comment-71.59.226.247-20150829221311/@comment-26419174-20150917181812

 After going through this thread it came to my mind that it is in dire need of a monologue, so here I am to deliver. The point of this particular ramble is going to be about two closely related issues I(and as far as my understanding goes several other people) have with the setting. The complete lack of options   in the settings and it's sheer one-sidedness. The former is closer to the original subject of the topic, the latter to the topic's current state, so I shall go through them in that order.

 In order to cover the topic fully I will start from afar by establishing several facts that constitute the core the problem. 1. All mamono produce and expel demonic enery/mamono mana( depending on translation no   actual difference; DE further in the text) as part of their day to day life.

 2. The amount of energy expelled is ultimately only dependant on the individual monster's   power

 3. When mamono have sex with men(for purposes of this point also includes male elves, dwarves and incubi of any racial origin) their power level grows and additional DE is expelled

 4. Small amount of DE dissipate harmlessly, however, when DE concentration reaches a certain level the land becomes a Demon realm/Mamono realm(again different translations, DR in the Text)

 5. DR's are uninhabitable for humans(including uncorrupted   elves and dwarves). It is possible   to stay there with protection, but only for a limited amount of time an d in the end said human become monsters/incubi

 6. If there are enough mamono having sex inside a DR said DR will grow

 All of those statements are part of setting's canon( unless I am grossly misremembering, in which case please correct me). And as a result they mean, that there is absolutely no option to be neutral   which can work out even in principle. The majority of the points establishes that long term contact with mamono will inevitably lead to the land where such a contact is established to becoming a DR even without any conscious efforts from mamono. Now before I go any further 2 important point are to be made. First, I am not claiming it to be good, or to be bad .My current opinion is in fact lingering towards good but it is ultimately undecided. What I am stating ara facts with out (hopefully) any emotional context. Second point is     that the timescale for such a conversion   is large. As Zipangu region shows us it can take dozens of generations for a full conversion, but it will happen none the less. As a result of the above the only way to avoid becoming a monster/incubus are   to either run or fight.

 Running   has multiple crippling issues. Let's assume first that "runners" are good enough to perfectly avoid/ fend off all attacks by wild mamono. That assumption is unlikely, but without it this option will end in failure very very shortly. Even with it though   there are problems, namely that those who pick this option will be forced to stick a nomadic lifestyle which is rather detrimental to such things as quality of life, population growth and civilization advancement, but even if we accept those drawback the point №6 means, that on a large timescale   such a lifestyle is   unfeasible. New DR will pop-up the old ones will grow l   forcing those nomads to give more and more ground until they run out of ground to give. The same point also means that any peace treaty or a "sphere of influence" agreement with Demon lord   is essentially worthless simply because   mamono would violate it by simply existing. Without any intent or or malevolence without maybe even knowing it   they will violate the agreement and make the DR grow until there is nothing left but one huge DR.

 So the only option left for those who don't want to be a monster/ incubus is to fight, which all but forces them to join up with the order simply because the order has in theory the largest possible chance of actually winning the fight. That al so means that when they fight they also have to fight to the death. They can of course take prisoners to study, or experiment, but those prisoners will   end up dead simple because any single mamono has in principle the potential   to start a DR.   that consequently means that the accusations of genocide coming up in the topic are correct but they miss the point that the   due to the metaphysical rules of the setting said genocide is literally the only option available to those who prefer to remain human in the long run

 Now   before I go on to the next point I have emphasize that I do not support the above- mentioned   position and I would be glad to see it proven wrong. Nevertheless, as it stands i can not hide from the facts and the facts are   that only two possible long-term options in the world as it is written are   global monsterisation/ incubisation   or mamono   genocide.

 Now the second   point   is somewhat more simple. As it stands, mamono have every possible advantage available bar sheer numbers. Individual monster is better in a fight than normal human, battle trained or   naturally tougher monsters are   better then human soldiers. Supposedly Heroes being divinely empowered and angels as minor deities themselves   break the pattern but what littler information we have on the subject indicates the opposite:   while heroes can beat low-end monsters, the true powerhouses of the monster realms appear to be unbeatable.(ref. Druella vs Wlmarina described as the latter getting curb stomped)   Furthermore monsters always have the capacity to just turn their opponent to their side   meaning that even if a hero were to appear   strong enough to eventhe scales (s)he could easily get turned around< close to that is the fact that Dl herself as well as her most key agents are all but untouchable   inside the royal DR(see №5). throw in the fact that killing chances are greatly reduced   and the end result is that fighting   essentially becomes a non-option as well, meaning consequently that there freedom is imagination   is severely constricted in this world which personally is a rather BAD thing for a fantasy universe   in general and escapist fantasy   in particular.

''' Disclaimer: this post contains my opinions based on the interpretations of canon as I remember it. The end result may include mistakes and misunderstanding and is not in any shape or form a canon material '''.

P.S. While I would really like to have a dispute on this subject   I unfortunately won't be available for most of Friday and the weekend. I should answer on Monday though. Oh and sorry for the wall of text. :-)