Talk:Poseidon/@comment-83.81.246.143-20150203174351/@comment-89.12.191.20-20150215172008

"Sure it is. The line is "According to legend, in the age of the former demon lord, wicked demons of chaos who possessed a power that was even greater than that of the gods existed there at the bottom of the sea". If they were there in the age of the former demon lord, then (a) since there's a demon lord, there's monsters already, and more importantly (b) we know there have been many demon lords, so if the Chaos Gods were around only one demon lord ago, then they were preceded by very many other demon lords and monsters. Also (c), "The Truth" says that monsters have been around since the start of the world."

Ok, if monsters and chaos gods have existed at the same time, why are they only kin? Are they a mutation which is strong enough to resist the influence of the demon lord or a failed experiment of the chief god or something completely different? The small word kin makes a great difference.

"But the demon lord and the monsters were included as part of the “world” that the chief god created."

OK, that now is splitting hairs from me, but it's not said that the monsters existed from the beginning, only that they are part of the world and the chief god created them. They could also have been included later.

"That's true, elves and angels (and therefore logically gods) are much more resistant to DE than humans. But here you're conflating two different kinds of gods. The gods that can defend against demonic energy are the ones from Heaven that are full of spirit energy. OTHER gods, like ryus, are demons from the start, have no spirit energy, and therefore automatically became succubi with no defence when the succubus demon lord did her magic. It's said that the chaos gods are "kin to monsters", which makes them the second kind."

The are kin and thats the problem. 2 extremes: They could react like every other monster and be a form of a succubus or they could be stonger as the demon lord and can control demonic energy. Them they could create their own form of monsters.

"Where's the contradiction here?"

Have you read how often here stands that monsters aggressively attack/hunt humans? Much here in the texts is generalized and exaggerated. Or in other words, it is not credible, at least not to this extent.

"Again, I don't understand what you consider contradictory here. Which bits don't make sense? It all seems to fit together to me. Yes, you're right, Wandering Scholar didn't see it and all he has are ancient legends, but that's still more than any other explanation has going for it."

1st: The alleged balance between Yin and Yang. Which balance? The demonic energy can consume spiritual energy. This is not a balance. OK, the current demon lord could have done something with the demonic energy, because now demon realms rise, which can apparently not be undone. But even then, the monsters remain a tool. A difficult to control tool.

And on the other side the humans + elves and dwarfs, which never seem to play an important role. Maybe I have not well understood the principle of Yin and Yang, but normally it should be opposites and not nearly the same thing. The real opposite to demons were angels, but they are ignored just as the gods.

2nd: The chaos gods, which are an anomaly. What exactly are they and why you had to make the effort and imprison them? When the demon lord can be killed by a human hero, then why not the chaos gods? That would be much easier than to imprison them. And do not come to me with punishment. The chief god does not give a damn about other lives.

3rd: "Monsters are, in essence, beings that are higher on the food chain than humans. They're living creatures the chief god created so that it could adjust the number of humans."

"According to them, when the world was created by the original Chief God, the reason that Demon Lords were included in the grand design was to maintain the yin-yang balance between the number of humans and the number of monsters."

First, monsters are createt to eat humans. The question remains why that was necessary at all.

Second, we have suddenly a Yin-Yang balance between monsters and humans. It is quite possible that Yin and Yang were chosen wrong here, but it is also said that spiritual and demonic energy are in a Yin-Yang relationship. To eat Humans, you first need humans. So you create humans (and elves and angels and ...) without monsters and all is OK. No balance but all is OK. And then you create monsters, because the number of humans is to high (or for any other reason). And now, we have suddenly Yin and Yang.

And why not a direct control, why a demon lord? The whole thing is very cumbersome. Either the chief god was incapable, a masochist or she has played with foreign forces she could not control.

Third, what the heck is the purpose of this world? War the chief god bored or something? Create humans and keep them small. Create monsters, which use a corruptive form of energy. Sounds like a garden where now everyone does what he wants.

"So you can have glorious adventures, heroes rescuing princesses, and a whole good vs. evil epic battle? Just saying "The shall have only 2.2 children" might work, but it's not very glorious, is it?"

That may be goog reasons for you, but for the chief god ... I think no. The creation of such dangerous creatures and that only to reduce the number of humans (what they would good manage alone) is ... gross negligence, to say it friendly.